This is an interview from May 2024. The full version will be available in the upcoming book "The Queer Talks"
Malab Alneel ©Clotilde Petrosino All rights reserved
Malab Alneel is a Sudanese queer activist and visual artist. At the moment their work focuses on the archival and highlighting of the queer SWANA history and experience -in connection to language- as part of their life long project "sahq alzafaran:archiving lesbian* history in SWANA". within activism and mobilization they work around similar themes, currently working as part of sudanese queer rights advocacy collective Shades of Ebony in knowledge production related to local queer language.
Hi, how are you? Tell us a bit about yourself.
Hey, I'm actually very overwhelmed, a lot is happening in the world, at the time I'm writing this it's been 2 days over 1 year since the war in Sudan started and any sense of security was lost. Maybe the answer to the next question seems like a harsh transition but I grew to accept the nuance, nothing exists within a vacuum and all, you know?
I’m a sudanese queer activist and a visual artist, I'm an aquarius, an autistic person with adhd and bipolar, in summary you can never know what's coming next, and most of the time neither do I, We figure it out together.
What pronouns do you use?
they/them and she/ her, depending who's addressing me!
This is because I see gender, expressions of gender, and pronouns as a tool implying that gender doesn't really exist in my head. In my head I’m just a person, but I understand that I live my life through the experience of a black woman but the “they” creates somewhat of a bridge between my experience in society and how I view myself internally.
Can you explain to us a bit more what your art practice is about and how it engages with the LGBTQIA+ community?
My work is concept and/or research based, I don't have an established medium nor better skills in one than the other, although they are all visual, photography, film, illustration, and a mix of the above. It all starts with an idea and I follow it in how it would like to manifest.
The main concept in my work is queerness and how it relates to language and culture. My life long project is called "sahq alza'faran" an archiving and documentation of lesbian (lower case lesbian) history in SWANA, a project with multiple voices and years ahead. With each section of the project including different voices that for the community we are talking about from trans or cis lesbians to bi femmes, transmen and trans masc and all that were historically part of lesbian spaces and communities.
When did you first move to Milan and what was your first impression about the queer scene in the city?
I moved here at the end of 2017 for university, my first impression remains the same unfortunately; except for a few niche pockets that I am so grateful to have found and been part of creating. The milan "queer" scene is more gay than queer, meaning very depoliticized, with a very overpowering "sassy" gay men culture which to me is just misogyny with some glitter that seems invisible to both the cis gays but also those around them simply because they are gay, and that manifestation of misogyny is not as pronounced.
I liked the "queer" scene away from the rainbow gays though, the centri sociali and socially disruptive queers, but also there I have some criticisms. Mainly regarding the appearance of anti-establishment without an implementation or at the least understanding of how that is to be implemented in daily relationships when it doesn't include overthrowing the 1%. To put it simply, are you just gonna tattoo ACAB or do you have an arrangement for when member/s of the community are houseless to support, and inter community ways to surpass or minimize the need to contribute with this system you despise or are we all just learning how to build molotov cocktails for the magical day the working class rises?
Do you think the queer community in Milan and Europe in general is a safe space for black queer people?
Absolutely not! There are those that celebrate "queer liberation" without understanding how that came about or that we're still not there. They rarely focus on intersectional work, and when they do look over to see what it's like to be queer elsewhere, a criticism of how that is a colonial leftover is not usually what follows, more likely it will be pitty, or a funny video to post about how "they're existence is illegal in 72 countries" not realizing how that is not a joke but a reality for many of us, and with no regard to the sociopolitical situations in these countries that directly impact the queer life quality.
I also experience much misogyny here from the hair touching to the “how is it to be gay there” the “it’s probably so liberating to be here and dress how you like and be able to express yourself loudly, no?” and the most annoying of all “how do your parents feel about it, do they know” right after a hello.
Do you think it is safe to live in Italy as a black and queer person?
I don't think it's safe to live in Italy! Makes it worse if you're queer, but even worse if you're black. I walk out of the house everyday and see military trucks driving around just making their presence visible, even though they can’t do anything, their main task is intimidation. I wear a keffiyeh in the metro and I get some dirty looks (with credit to the many smiles and thumbs up I get) . I walk out of the metro and I see carabinieri holding their machine guns like a dick measuring contest. With a fascist government giving more ways for bigotry to spread, I don't think it's safe, let alone if you're part of any marginalized community.
What are the reasons that led you to become an activist? What are the links between your art practice and your activism?
I grew up in a very politically engaged family, it was constantly a part of lunch conversations. but also that is the general umbrella conversation included in sudanese streets that everything in daily life is directly linked to what's happening politically, so also visiting home every year reinforced this.
My first direct understanding of resistance -even though i was told about it my whole life- was in 6th or 7th grade where they canceled a sports day at school, and we decided that after assembly we do a sit-in and not go to class until they agree to give it back, and they did. My mind was blown! All I could think is "we should do this on a bigger scale. If we don't like something in the government, the whole country should do it!" I thought I discovered all that we'll need to change the world that day.
And then there's the obvious, being Sudanese, born and raised in Oman because of political unrest, witnessing west and regional corrupted government imposed tragedies all around me. Then the hope from the arab spring, and the sudanese revolution of 2018. The revolution was a very big push to interlink my work with my activism, creating illustrations to keep the revolution digitally visible and to take part while witnessing it from a distance and not being able to go down to the streets.
The queer visibility in my work then followed, after joining a Sudanese queer advocacy collective around the same time, and now here we are where all I do is artivism with one over weighing the other depending on the work at hand
Potential triggering question: compared to the activism and discourse around Palestine that is currently ongoing, do you notice any difference in Western attention to the ongoing war in Sudan SAF and RSF? In general, do you have any comment on how Western-White gaze looks at different topics, and to which different degree they focus on different conflicts/crises/nations?
There has been a noticeable change in how the west (public not government) view the occupation of Palestine, that encompasses so much of what's wrong with the current system, which is great to see, they're finally catching up to facts and fights we've been born into and raised to be aware of. But on the other hand I can't help but feel some resentment. The world does not care about black genocide, nor does the western public understand how interconnected these issues are. You can not fight one without the other! The players are the same with different locations for maximum profit, this is not a civil war, all of these are proxy wars, the ones dying have nothing to do with it other than being in lands that are profitable for the ones moving the pieces, SAF (sudanese armed forces) and RSF (rapid support forces) are just payed fighters by UAE, USA, Saudi, the zionist occupation, and so many others.
People know nothing about Sudan, maybe they heard something when it started on april 15th 2023, but once it faded from the news it faded from western consciousness, the most representation we get is in protests for Palestine as a footnote where Sudan, Congo, Tigray, and else are mentioned without context except the vague "think of them too".
The atrocities we've witnessed committed by the zionist occupation made people realize the level of oppression, but when similar images of black bodies in streets, no one bats an eye, the western public is numb to black death.
Heartbreaking and soul crushing is the only way I can think to describe what it feels like to try and collect, summarize and simplify information or just even reshare content about Sudan and getting violent silence in response. My solidarity with Palestinian liberation could never waver, but when I go to the protests I will look around and wonder if any of these people would show up for Sudan.
Malab Alneel ©Clotilde Petrosino All rights reserved
"Homophobia and queer discrimination in general is a product of colonialism"
Can you tell us a bit more about the queer history in the SWANA region? What discussions are happening around it? The general view of the West is that it is a region behind when it comes to queer rights, do you think this is fully correct? And if yes, what are the socio-cultural reasons?
I have one thing to say here, it's not a full answer to the question but it's all I could care to share with a "western" audience. Homophobia and queer discrimination in general is a product of colonialism, I can't say for sure things were all gays and roses before that but I can insure it was nothing like today. Colonial powers physically left the region, and the people indigenous to the lands changed their stance on some things, as a reaction to distance themselves from those same powers that oppressed them.
How does your work engage with the queer SWANA community? Can you make some examples?
Specifically in the case of "sahq alza'faran" it's a direct engagement, I find lesbian* artist to collaborate with in every part of the project. This project's final expression shared publicly might be by me but with many voices contributing along the way. The second addition of the project is focused on documenting the SWANA diaspora lesbian experience. The core of the research took place in gatherings, inviting members of the community for tea, snacks, joints, and a chat, this method of research serves not as an outside looking in data collecting opportunity but as a chance of continuing a link furthering the building of this community. The research mirrors the spaces in question, and hopefully also mirrors the personal and communal gain of such spaces.
Malab Alneel ©Clotilde Petrosino All rights reserved
As a black and queer artist and activist how do you navigate the art world in Europe which is predominantly male and white dominated? What are your criticisms? What do you think should change?
The short answer is I don't, I do not see my work in museums or galleries on blank white walls, my work is messy and not to be translated for a general audience, I want to reach specific people, others are welcomed to watch but if you don't understand it, it only means it's not for you.
So far, I've had 1 exhibition in Italy, in Lancetti station with spazioSERRA, because I lived in that neighborhood, a majority immigrant majority Arabic speaking neighborhood, where I did not have to translate.
My 2nd exhibition took place in Tunis, Tunisia, where again nothing needed to be translated and the work was intended to be interacted with, including a personal library of mine that I think carried the sense of queer diaspora interests, from queerness to arts to politics to random others.
It's hard to picture where I can show my work. There were some spaces around europe focused on and created by people I would consider community but after the 7th of october 2023 all got defunded and shut down when all the governments showed their dedication to the colonial imperialist zionist project.
I don't believe in the rehabilitation of museums in europe, for me they have always been and will always be colonial spaces to showcase trophies collected from massacres around the world, I do not want my work associated with that nor do I want my work to be put at a distance from the viewer, it is to be lived in and interacted with, it is a representation of a society not a pretty object to gawk at. Of course this directly links back to the fact that I struggle with funds and opportunities, but I'd rather pay in funds than ethics.
Going back to the question, do I have criticisms? Yes, many. But do I care to lay them out for a discussion? Not really. This art world you're asking about and the art world I exist within are not related, similar names but that's as far as it goes, at least in how I see and feel about it.
Project, Photography and editing by Clotilde Petrosino
Interview by Enea Venegoni
Italian translation by Bartolomeo Goffo