We interviewed Mo B. Dick founder of Drag King History Drag King legend and pioneer having accomplished many firsts
within the drag king community in USA,
Hi, how are you? What are your pronouns? Tell us a bit about
yourself!
Hello ! My name is Mo B. Dick (he, him in drag / she, her out of drag) I
am a Drag King Legend and pioneer having accomplished many firsts
within the drag king community. (You can read more about my career here)
I am feeling terrific and happy about life, thanks to all the wonderful ways that we can now connect virtually to create a global community. Despite the world being in chaos and confusion, I have hope for humanity.
When did you first engage with drag? How was it? What has
changed?
I started doing drag in November 1995 in New York City. It was a very
creative, expressive, exciting, fun time to be at the forefront of the
performing arts scene in 1990’s. We didn’t have cell phones, social media nor intrusive media presence to dampen our creative lust. This was a time when community flourished and no-holds-barred performances were all the rage.
The very first time I went into drag, I was gobsmacked by how much fun it was, and most importantly how safe I felt. When I would walk the streets of NYC as femme presenting, I would be cat-called and verbally accosted which drove me nuts !! The first time I went into drag, I donned facial hair and a boyish outfit to minimize my girlish figure. I was met by a slightly inaudible murmur “hey” from a group of men where I responded “hey” back. To my great surprise, I felt safe walking the streets of NYC dressed as a drag king. I then channeled my anger and created the motto: “Instead of being an angry woman, I became a funny man.”
In March 1996, I created Club Casanova, the world’s first weekly party
dedicated solely to drag kings. This garnered international attention and
fast became THE place to be. Despite the flourishing nightlife scene, then Mayor Rudy Giuliani decimated bars and nightclubs which ended queer and rock n roll parties. So, I took the “show on the road” and created the first drag king cabaret show to tour US and CN in 1998, 2001 and 2002.
Drag Kings have changed immensely since the 1990’s becoming more
stylish and camp with elaborate make-up, wigs and costumes. In my day, drag kings were mimicking realness where our goal was to pass. I’m all for the evolution and change which creates larger than life camp
aesthetics.
When, how and why Drag King History was born? What's its
future?
In January 2018 Drag King History was an idea that emanated one night
while I was taking a hot bubble bath. I telephoned Fudgie Frottage of San Francisco who suggested that my idea become a website. Then I spoke to Ken Vegas of Washington, D.C. who is a web designer and had the domain name, so immediately we teamed up. We brought in Flare of
Toronto, CN to help create structure in the first year of formation.
Ken and I worked closely together for six years creating a dynamic project that surpassed our wildest dreams when we granted permission for the site to be archived in the U.S. Library of Congress in July 2020. This means that the website will live on well past us. Future researchers, drag enthusiasts and drag performers will be able to utilize
dragkinghistory.com forever.
As of January 2024, I became the sole owner of the site as Ken’s freelance work grew, so he no longer has the time to devote to this project.
Currently, I am revamping the site to sell DKH merchandise, create a
bookstore affiliate program, and offer lecture presentations via Zoom for colleges, companies and communities. My greatest wish is for DKH to become a documentary series which encompasses the history in its
entirety.
According to your studies and research, when did male
impersonators first appear on stage? And why?
When I began my research in early 2018, I stumbled upon a master thesis written by Yeong-Rury Chen who wrote of male impersonation in Chinese Opera during the Tang Dynasty 618-907. Chinese Opera became more organized under the reign of Emperor Xuanzong who created the first school in Chinese history to train musicians, dancers and actors. He was the son of Empress Wu Zetian who was China’s one and only female leader from 690-704. She was very influential and instrumental in advancing women in the public realm, and became an effective leader.
Empress Wu reopened the Silk Road ending in the city of Chang'an which was China's capital city and place where she ruled. This brought
tremendous cultural influence with the likes of Arabs, Indians, Syrians,
Persians etc. Hence society during the Tang Dynasty was more open and accepting. Because she allowed women to dress in men’s clothing for ease and comfort during her reign, I think it gave license for women to dress in men’s attire for theatrical purposes as well.
The Tang Dynasty is where I begin with Drag King History, and I weave
the lineage through to today in my lecture presentations.
In which way your research and studies about Drag King history
and male impersonators influenced your work and your
performances?
Creating Drag King History has stoked my feminist fires as I get to tell the stories of courageous women who defied patriarchy to become renowned performers. I’m proud and honored to follow in the footsteps of these phenomenal performers of the past. I hope to one day produce a drag king show that emulates the historical performers while weaving in
modern day music and experience.
Although I guess it might be difficult, if you had to choose 3 male
impersonators from the Drag King History archive, which ones
would they be and what is it about their stories that has impressed
you the most?
It is very difficult to choose only three male impersonators because I
adore every performer feeling kinship with each of them. Mlle de Maupin,
Gowongo Mohawk, and Gladys Bentley stand out to me because they are all bold, brave pioneers who transgressed patriarchy, gender and race to become prolific performers in their own rite. You can further learn of their illustrious careers at dragkinghistory.com
I would be remiss if I didn’t include notable mentions such as: Madame
Vestris, Charlotte Charke, Susanna Centlivre, Charlotte Cushman,
Florence Hines, Sarah Bernhardt, Azucena Maizani, Pepi Littman, Maude Adams, Alberta “Bert” Whitman, Stormé DeLarverié, El Daña, Diane Torr, Shelly Mars, Elvis Herselvis/Leigh Crow, Bridge Markland, Dred, and many more.
Why did Drag Queens gain more mainstream popularity than
Kings? How much does the audience's reaction/participation affect
(/contribute to) this aspect? Do you have any stories or moments
you would like to share with us on this topic?
Historically men have been conditioned to be in the public eye and take
up space, whereas women have been rendered invisible and remain out
of the public realm. For centuries women were denied agency over their
own lives. It has only been since the 1970’s where women have begun to secure positions of power and prestige in greater numbers. This is all to say that I’m not surprised that drag kings are lesser known than drag
queens. I do get asked this question a lot, and I think the main reason is
PMS - Patriarchy, Misogyny, Sexism.
In the 1990’s, queens and kings shared stages with joy and camaraderie.
Today there are some cool queens who welcome kings, yet the majority
don’t want kings due to the meteoric rise of RuPaul’s Drag Race. And
despite a number of drag kings who have won reality show competitions
and best drag performer awards in their respective cities and towns, drag kings remain in the shadow of queens. Still I have hope that drag kings will get our due and show the world how terrific we are.
Which do you think is the best Drag King Show in LA? And why?
Currently as of 2024, I think the two best drag king shows in LA are Them Fatale and Diverse. Monster reality show Dragula season 3 winner Landon Cider produces the extremely entertaining show Diverse at Hamburger Mary’s bar in Long Beach, CA. Each drag king performs
several numbers in every show with elaborate make-up, costume and
character changes to create a high caliber show.
Them Fatale is an inclusive, enlightening and fun drag king, gender queer, nonbinary show. There’s a warmth and joy to this party that isn’t felt in the greater world with fear, fascism, and homophobia on the rise. It’s a relief to celebrate queerness and playful gender expression.
What do you think is the most promising and prolific drag king
scene in Europe right now?
There are several very strong drag king scenes in Europe right now which I am thrilled to share with you. You can find exciting thriving drag king scenes in the U.K., Ireland, Latvia, and in major European cities: Berlin, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam and more. There are also big drag king scenes in Australia and New Zealand.
Interview by Clotilde Petrosino and Bartolomeo Goffo Italian translation by Enea Venegoni and Bartolomeo Goffo
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